<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1555</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 22 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1555<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re Fading Suns [OT]<BR>
Re Christmas Ultra-Violence<BR>
Re Vargr<BR>
Book Industry<BR>
Re: Terran polities<BR>
Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
Re: England<BR>
search webrings<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: The Death of Q<BR>
In Jokes<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: O Canada<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
Re: Subject: In Jokes<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: In Jokes<BR>
RE: England<BR>
Re: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:52:46 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Fading Suns [OT]<BR>
<BR>
>>I've plans for Faded Suns, 7th Sea and Traveller in the new year.<BR>
><BR>
>Faded Suns any good?  Looks very 40K to my fleeting glance....<BR>
><BR>
>iSteve<BR>
<BR>
FS has a nice (if dark) background. Like 40K, religion has pervasively<BR>
invaded society. The rules look nice enough. The expansions are a fun read.<BR>
I've not had the oportunity to run it. I'd call it a cross between Dune and<BR>
WH40K.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:03:55 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Christmas Ultra-Violence<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Suggests to iSteve<BR>
>He's calling for help, TMLers!  Remember, isteve,<BR>
>suicide is never a solution.  Why don't you take out<BR>
>the office manager instead?  He or she is probably the<BR>
>one who ordered the musical torture.  And please don't<BR>
>use a firearm, or you'll just start the politicians<BR>
>talking about banning them (instead of banning<BR>
>Christmas music, which wouldn't be entirely a bad<BR>
>thing).  No, I'd recommend a bo-ken and a loud kiai,<BR>
>so that you use all of the muscles in your body when<BR>
>striking, which is much more cathartic than just<BR>
>squeezing a trigger, and you get that satisfying<BR>
>swish-crunch! and the moans of your victim, so repeat<BR>
>several times: tzaaaa! swish-crunch! aiee! tzaaa!<BR>
>swish-crunch! bluh! tzaaaa! swish-crunch! ohg stop!<BR>
>tzaaaa! swish-crunch! no help aag! tzaaaa!<BR>
>swish-crunch, tzaaaa! swish-crunch, tzaaaa!<BR>
>swish-crunch .... oh thank you I feel better anyway.<BR>
>Well, I hope that helps you get through the holidays.<BR>
<BR>
whatever you use, once you start swinging, keep swinging until security or<BR>
the police remove the object being swung; better still, take a few swings<BR>
with enpty hands as though you still had your implement. Makes a temporary<BR>
insanity defense much easier if you show signs of being totally focussed<BR>
upon a single target to the exclusion of reality.<BR>
<BR>
And, just to be ornery, you might want to sing "Singing in the rain" while<BR>
attacking. ;)<BR>
<BR>
>(Feel free to substitute a baseball or cricket bat,<BR>
>golf club, cane, or Oxford English Dictionary<BR>
>condensed edition as appropriate.)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:31:44 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Vargr<BR>
<BR>
>Not to second guess you or anything, but let me get this straight. Two<BR>
>characters in *BD* encountered each other in an *engineering access<BR>
>crawlspace*? And one of them fired an FGMP *several* times?<BR>
><BR>
Not exactly. One was in engineering, (had the gun). The other was just<BR>
leaving Engineering via a crawlway.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>The ship's safety systems should have sealed the crawl and either<BR>
>filled it full of fire-fighting foam or vented it to space as soon as<BR>
>the first shot was fired.<BR>
<BR>
Section was already decompressing.<BR>
<BR>
>Either way, the results of the first shot<BR>
>sould have been much like standing next to a satchel charge. Eggects of<BR>
>the *second* shot should have been comparable to being inside a *small*<BR>
>bunker and setting off *several* satchel charges.<BR>
><BR>
>In short, BD or no BD, the other characters should have had to clean<BR>
>those two out of there with a sponge and a scraper.<BR>
><BR>
Based upon the rules of TNE, even using the "D10's for Damage" fix, going<BR>
through Combat Armor 14, the fragments don't penetrate, and the main hit<BR>
wasn't enough to knock out the buff Vargr PC, simply due to the way PC's<BR>
take damage.<BR>
<BR>
He took 5 hits from an FGMP 14. Spread amongst legs, tail, and abdomen.<BR>
<BR>
He kicked the Zho in the head, repeatedly. The Zho died from the following<BR>
factors: double damage on head shots<BR>
	Blunt trauma (One can only assume his head got rocked against<BR>
		his helmet one time too often)<BR>
	Single damage track for all locations for NPC's.<BR>
<BR>
Also, I don't think 1-2 cc's of plasma are going to be equivalent to a<BR>
satchel charge. Simply due to transference of heat speeds.<BR>
<BR>
In any case, it was that very incident that poisoned me on the "Realism" of<BR>
TNE (i.e.: TNE LACKS any realism). I liked 2tK 1st ed, but not 2nd ed...<BR>
similar reasons.<BR>
<BR>
>> > (several exchanges later, Sid's Vargr kicks the marine to death, while<BR>
><BR>
>Hmmmm... correct me if I am wrong here, but I have always thought<BR>
>Vargr physiology makes their kicks pretty ineffective, right? I seem<BR>
>to remember the rule of thumb... "Vargr can't kick." <shrug>.<BR>
>Carlos<BR>
><BR>
Can they Jump? Yes? then a kick along the axis of the body, rather than to<BR>
the front, will have good force. And hobnailed boots don't hurt. The only<BR>
reason a Vargr can't kick effectively is that the leg bends wrong for a<BR>
swinging kick; they would do just fine when effectively Stomping the target<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:49:22 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Book Industry<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, as an ersatz defense of the sci-fi industry, I could point out<BR>
>that there's a long history, dating back to the pulp era, of "cover<BR>
>misrepresentation", which I've always found amusing to some degree. It *has*<BR>
>been getting better over the last few years, however.<BR>
<BR>
The same thing happens in fantasy novels, too. In many cases, the cover art<BR>
doesn't even seem related to the story.<BR>
<BR>
Having just boorowed (to re-read) The Dragonlance Chronicles, on Book 1's<BR>
cover, goldmoon (With the blue crystal staff) is a red-head, not a blonde<BR>
as the book clearly points out. Also, the BCS is not blue except when<BR>
working it's powers... even though she's leaning on it on the cover illo,<BR>
and it's blue all the way down.<BR>
<BR>
Cover art is merely a tool to grab the interest of the prospective buyer;<BR>
once they buy the book, few people will return it simply because the cover<BR>
art doesn't match.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, reading of Sci-Fi and Fantasy does tend (in the US) to be more of<BR>
a white and oriental thing; the average black male in america is far less<BR>
educated than the average white male, based upon highest level completed.<BR>
The average black male is far more likely to come from impoverished areas<BR>
than the average white male. Having worked for a Gentleman of color who is<BR>
very well educated (MA from a brittish university, former Royal Navy<BR>
signalman), elloquent, and well versed outside his field of expertise; he<BR>
is one of the very few black men I've known to like SciFi. (He doesn't read<BR>
Fantasy, tho.) Reading choices are a factor of environment, education, and<BR>
socialization. Gaming choices likewise.<BR>
<BR>
It used to be explained that the dearth of non-white RPG'ers was due to the<BR>
rise of RPG's in colleges, and the relative dearth of non-whites in<BR>
colleges. I think it has more to do with socio-economic factors in<BR>
childhood environments than college attendance; especially since RPG's have<BR>
now become fairly common in high-schools, when not otherwise prohibited.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:58:59 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Terran polities<BR>
<BR>
>BTW. I don't have _Invasion:Earth_. Is there no evidence that bears on this<BR>
>question to be gleaned there?<BR>
><BR>
Not really. The _I:E_ rules are sadly lacking in color/fill text. Really<BR>
playable, tho. The map shows NO boundaries, a few starports, and<BR>
urbanization regions. The Hawaiian Islands show urbaizarion well out beyond<BR>
the islands.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>There is no evidence that they did, though. And evidence that at least one<BR>
>old nation-state (Nepal) survived to 1109 -- as a district, not a nation.<BR>
>See AM6, pp. 45-48.<BR>
><BR>
>When the United Nations became a world government, nations became renamed<BR>
>disticts (AM6, p. 46). The District of Nepal remained a constitutional<BR>
>monarchy until a referendum in -2030, so clearly the UN, the Terran<BR>
>Confederation, and the Rule of Man allowed these former nations wide<BR>
>lattitude in internal governing structure.<BR>
<BR>
I doubt there is a continuity there. For example, Egypt, which was nation<BR>
3-5000 years ago, is a nation now; for well over 100 years it was NOT a<BR>
nation. Only China has survived 5000 years with a clear national identity.<BR>
<BR>
The only reason a region such as nepal would remain a single entity would<BR>
be that such an area is culturally, geographically, and politcally isolated.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:16:22 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: i Steve <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 22 December 1999 20:25<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>Maybe we should all get together for a game - somewhere neutral, like<BR>
>>Todmorden, which *should* be in Lancashire again <g>.<BR>
>><BR>
>>         If we could make that Hebden Bridge, Jae Campbell of Signal GK<BR>
>>zine<BR>
>>lives there!<BR>
><BR>
>Careful guys, this is sounding dangerously close to a plan....<BR>
><BR>
>iSteve<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<george peppard><BR>
I love it when a plan comes together<BR>
</george peppard><BR>
<BR>
Too right it does, count me in as well. Though being a non-driver, I may<BR>
need a lift...<BR>
<BR>
Now... who's going to ref, and which rules...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:29:39 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
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- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
<snip><BR>
>butts kicked in wars with people you used to hire as mercenaries<BR>
<BR>
>--Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
errr.... no I'm stumped... enlighten me<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV>-----Original =<BR>
Message-----<BR>
From: Glenn=20Goffin &lt;<A=20href=3D"mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com">gmgoffin@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>
&lt;snip=&gt;<FONT=20face=3DArial></DIV><DIV><FONT=20size=3D3>&gt;butts kicked in wars with people you used to hire as=20mercenaries</DIV><DIV><BR>
&gt;--Glenn<BR>
</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>errr.... no I'm stumped... enlighten me</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Matt</DIV><BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:33:20 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: search webrings<BR>
<BR>
You can search the rings from www.webring.org.<BR>
They have search engines built in.  You can even search a single ring.<BR>
Of course, this requires the site owners to have valid keywords in their <BR>
ring entries.<BR>
<BR>
This is one of the reasons why there are special focus Traveller webrings, <BR>
like Gearhead & Deckplans.<BR>
Smaller subset of Traveller sites dedicated to what flavor of geekdom you <BR>
are looking for.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
By the way, there is no year zero, (not in the Gregorian calendar)<BR>
and the third Millennium starts in 2001, not 2000.<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:51:20 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
>The last successful invasion of Britain was the German invasion of the<BR>
Channel<BR>
>Islands in 1940, which they held for the rest of WWII. England as a whole<BR>
has<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, the Channel Islands are not part of Britain any more than Gibraltar or<BR>
the Falklands are.  They're separate Crown Dependencies, and the last part<BR>
of the Duchy of Normandy still held by the crown.  Part of the *British<BR>
Empire* at the time, but not Britain (or even the UK). And any way, we got<BR>
them back. As the original thread was comparing Britain & Japan as distinct<BR>
island nations with a long tradition of continuous nationhood, you could<BR>
just as well point to the invasion of Okinawa in WWII by the Americans as<BR>
being analagous to the Channel Islands under Germany.<BR>
<BR>
>not been conquered by a foreign power since 1066 (William of Orange<BR>
>notwithstanding), nor have any of the subsequent British Unions involving<BR>
>England.<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:54:23 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:02:00 -0500 (EST), "David J. Golden"<BR>
<goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>	Yes, but he won't be *Q*. There has always been just one Q--007 may<BR>
>come and go, as well as M, Moneypenney, and just about everybody<BR>
>else, but  Q is a constant ...<BR>
<BR>
No, he'll be 'R'.  And he'll be played by John Cleese.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:03:42 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: In Jokes<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Chris posted:<BR>
>ObObTrav: Does anyone else pepper their Traveller universes with all manner<BR>
>of in-jokes that nobody will ever get?<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, in my yet-to-be-written designers notes for Tavonni, you'll probably see:<BR>
<BR>
- - Count Leto Khaanraarshuinki was Duke Leto Atreides in the original campaign;<BR>
- - similarly, Mikhail B. Powell, owner of Lone Scout Enterprises, was originally<BR>
just "Baden-Powell", a Scout;<BR>
- - Ben Cade was named off his UPP, 9BECDE;<BR>
- - Beowulf Heyerdahl, Menelvagor's founder, was named after (a) the front cover<BR>
of the original black boxed set, and (b) Thor Heyerdahl, the great modern-day<BR>
Norwegian adventurer/explorer (ie traveller! ;-) who explored Easter Island and<BR>
rafted across the Atlantic on weeds, thus making Beowulf the ultimate traveller;<BR>
- - Caradoc LIC, the main company on Tavonni, was taken from an SF book. In<BR>
real-life, the player is a contract programmer, whose company is registered as<BR>
"Caradoc LIC";<BR>
- - Menelvagor Ltd, a company founded by a Sword Worlder, is taken from the<BR>
*hobbit's* name for the constellation of Orion, the "Swordsman of the Sky";<BR>
- - Tavonni System Control (TSC) is called that because the author (me) went to<BR>
The Scots College (TSC), Sydney;<BR>
- - the initials of the Main World Survey & Development Board (MWS&DB) may be<BR>
recognisable to old Sydney-siders (Metropolitan Water, Sewerage & Drainage<BR>
Board);<BR>
- - the island with the starport, Bjornoya (with dots above the "o's") is Bear<BR>
Island (look for it Nth of Norway);<BR>
- - the _Bonaventure_, Menelvagor's flagship, is based on the first interstellar<BR>
warp-drive ship created by ST's Cochrane (no, _not_ the one in the film) - I<BR>
took the design from the old Star Fleet spacecraft chronology;<BR>
- - for Niven fans, the derivation of Tavonni Safari Park (TASP) should be obvious<BR>
- - it's where you go to have a good time;<BR>
- - when one of our players came up with names like "The Peanuts", "Chips",<BR>
"Martini", "Vermouth", "The Ice-Cubes", Scotch" and its moon, "The Rock", we<BR>
concluded that the Tavonni system was named by a Scout team after a really wild<BR>
party;<BR>
- - but the 1% inspiration hit me when I decided that a _Vargr_ owned the<BR>
long-haul grav-bus company, "G-Hound"!!!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:08:41 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 01:07:06 -0500 (EST), "Chris Seamans"<BR>
<semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>It's the American way to shoot movies where they're nice and cheap to shoot.<BR>
>Sheesh. Most of Escape from New York was shot on the streets of St. Louis!<BR>
>Yeah, that's right, over in France!<BR>
<BR>
...and "The Taking of Bloor-Danforth 123" - excuse me, the<BR>
_remake_ of "The Taking of Pelham 123" - was shot in Toronto's<BR>
subway system.  There were three reasons why it couldn't be shot<BR>
on the IRT like the original:<BR>
<BR>
    The cost of the permits from the City of New York<BR>
    The cost of union labor<BR>
    The cost of the indemnity that the MTA wanted.<BR>
<BR>
Trust me, the original (with Walter Matthau) was far better, and<BR>
far more authentic.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:02:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: O Canada<BR>
<BR>
On 12/22/1999 15:03, Russell "not a Canadian... yet" Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Okay, I have to share my favorite Canadian jokes now.<BR>
> <BR>
> #1 - <BR>
> <BR>
> Q: How do you get 10 rowdy drunk Canadians out of your swimming pool?<BR>
> <BR>
> A: Say "Uh, guys, could you get out of the pool please?"<BR>
> <BR>
> #2 - <BR>
> <BR>
> I don't know how true this story is, but I've heard that there was some<BR>
> sort of contest to create a saying for Canada, starting "As Canadian<BR>
> as...", that was analogous to "As American as apple pie". The winner?<BR>
> <BR>
> "As Canadian as possible under the circumstances."<BR>
<BR>
I've got a couple of Canadian jokes, but they're adult in nature. If you're<BR>
interested, please e-mail me OFF LIST. Thanks!<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:04:08 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
On 12/22/1999 14:35, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> We'll give you the Rolling Stones and the Beatles,<BR>
> however.  Those are definitely in your favor.<BR>
<BR>
Give 'em credit for the Moody Blues and Pink Floyd, too!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:08:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>Australia still has short run ships called "Ninety <BR>
>Miler's" that ply thecoast moving incidental cargo. <BR>
<BR>
>    They are in fact, much sought after ships as they<BR>
<BR>
>allow you to be in port every night, great for family<BR>
<BR>
>men. <BR>
<BR>
I should think single men would find that great, too<BR>
- -- even (especially?) if it's not the same port every<BR>
night.<BR>
<BR>
>My brother is a Master and he and a few mates had a <BR>
>look at buying the Cape Don, an ex-lighthouse <BR>
>tender, for hauling cargo around the pacific islands <BR>
>but a case of marriage got in the way. <BR>
<BR>
Too bad -- many an adventurer has been ruined by it. <BR>
Reduced to armchairs, books, the telly, and National<BR>
Geographic, they are.<BR>
<BR>
>It would have been an amazing ship for it, she <BR>
>carries a WW2 Shwimmenwagen and a LARC for moving <BR>
>around inshore, very much like a Traveller vessels <BR>
>"Ships Boats."<BR>
<BR>
That sounds way too cool.  If we all chipped in, could<BR>
we put together enough to buy and maintain her?  Or,<BR>
put another way, how much would each of us have to put<BR>
up?  Then we could go visit during our vacations, like<BR>
a time share.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:08:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: In Jokes<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin writes:<BR>
>><BR>
>> I think I've heard this story.  Point-blank high<BR>
>> energy weapon fire just doesn't make sense.  The firer<BR>
>> is in his own danger space.  It's like using a grenade<BR>
>> launcher at point-blank range (in fact, the grenade of<BR>
>> the M-79 is not armed until enough time after firing<BR>
>> so that it should be several meters away).<BR>
 <BR>
On 12/22/1999 13:24, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I believe the point was that the target survived point-blank high energy<BR>
> weapons fire, not that the firer survived it.<BR>
> <BR>
Then how come DITZIE can survive this kind of fire?????? :) :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:12:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
>> We'll give you the Rolling Stones and the Beatles,<BR>
>> however.  Those are definitely in your favor.<BR>
<BR>
>Don't forget John Stuart Mill and David Hume. Oh,<BR>
>wait... Hume was a Scot, does he count? I'd also add <BR>
>Adam Smith, but I think he was a Scot as well.<BR>
<BR>
Are you suggesting Mill, Hume, and Smith for the plus<BR>
or minus side of the ledger?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:12:21 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: In Jokes<BR>
<BR>
On 12/22/99 at 05:45 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>Not to second guess you or anything, but let me get this straight. Two<BR>
>characters in *BD* encountered each other in an *engineering access<BR>
>crawlspace*? And one of them fired an FGMP *several* times?<BR>
<BR>
An FGMP does 12d6, right? <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:20:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: England<BR>
<BR>
>From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
>The last successful invasion of Britain was the <BR>
>German invasion of the Channel Islands in 1940, which<BR>
<BR>
>they held for the rest of WWII. England as a whole<BR>
has<BR>
>not been conquered by a foreign power since 1066 <BR>
>(William of Orange notwithstanding), nor have any of <BR>
>the subsequent British Unions involving England.<BR>
<BR>
Well, let's not forget the Argentine invasion of the<BR>
Falkland Islands, which I understand are treated as an<BR>
integral part of Britain, just like the Orkneys and<BR>
Channel Islands.  <BR>
<BR>
That the invasion was not successful can be credited<BR>
- -- as usual -- to the United States.  They'd still be<BR>
speaking Spanish in the Falklands if the United States<BR>
hadn't violated its treaty obligations to Argentina<BR>
and its own Monroe Doctrine to supply the British with<BR>
intelligence in the form of intercepted communications<BR>
and space imaging.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:16:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> [1] In the most recent book "Firedance" (a few years old now), we find<BR>
>> out that "Aubrey Knight" is actually a "pureblood" *native* African.<BR>
>> Which makes it quite likely that he's even *darker* than the way he's<BR>
>> drawn on the cover.<BR>
><BR>
> Really? What if he was from Morocco? Or Egypt? I saw a lot of<BR>
> "pure-blood" Egyptians when I was there (years ago) but I didn't<BR>
> see too many black people... anyway, people equating being African <BR>
> with being black really bugs me.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I was trying to avoid giving too much away. But he's<BR>
*definitely* from the black-skinned part of the continent. Way south of<BR>
the equator. And from a "native tribe" that's been there a lot loner<BR>
than thoose white skinned folks you refer to. <BR>
<BR>
I only referenced "pureblood" to emphasize the fact that he was going<BR>
to be the typical dark brown/black of most tribes in that area, not the<BR>
lighter browns you see in "mixed-race"(sic) ancestry.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1555<BR>
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